It would be hard to match the initial subtlety and dramatic quality, and in truth, the first few new episodes don't. They're still finely crafted (Susin Nielsen and Gary Harvey return as co-creators and executive producers) and the performances are excellent, but the series seems to have developed a serious dose of the cutes...When I watched Robson Arms last year, I found it interesting but a little unsettling. Mainly because I tuned in having heard it was a comedy and the first episode I saw was really, really dramatic. There were some that were more comic in tone, but that initial surprise left me feeling a bit turned around about the show.
What set Robson Arms apart in its first season was the delicacy of the drama, the lightness of the comedic moments and the authenticity of the humanity in the characters. Now it reaches more for outright comedy and the result is sometimes raucous farce -- often funny, certainly, but in the first three episodes, that hushed delicacy is missing.
In Canada, we've got a problem with Comedy. We can't really develop good ones, it seems, and I think it's often for one simple reason: we keep giving, and taking, drama notes.
Talk to writers in this country, and you'll eventually hear a story about a pitch meeting or a development meeting where they were told by a producer or a network type that so-and-so needed more depth or weight to their character. Which is fine if you're writing a drama. But like a souffle, comic characters are inherently more fragile. They can't freight too much complexity, or they become dramatic characters. You can see this in the evolution of what character backstories can carry: Once upon a time, Foster Brooks had a whole character based on how he was drunk all the time. There were lots of early TV shows where characters were lovable drunks. But in recent years, an awareness of the rigors of alcoholism and the costs of drunk drivers mean that habitual drinkers aren't really so funny anymore. Even on Cheers, though Sam was an alcoholic, him going off the wagon wasn't really played for laughs. And the other guys hanging out in the bar, even though they were there all the time, didn't seem like drunks. They didn't act drunk. Being a drunk is not something that you can reasonably put in a character today and have it read as funny.
One of the most interesting things about the Cheers example is Frasier. At the time, Frasier hanging out in Cheers was madcap and wonderful. But the few times they referenced it in Frasier, it seemed to be hinted at that his Cheers years were a dark time he'd rather forget. So... they finally dealt with the subtext of Cheers, in Frasier, because they didn't need to mine it for Comedy. Clever, but also illustrative of the delicacy of the comic character and how they can't have that much subtext.
Whoa. Interesting Cheers digression there. Now, back to Robson Arms. Doyle may have appreciated the hell out of Robson's quirky "hushed delicacy," but to me, though Robson was a very finely acted, well-written show, the shift and searching tone (not quite comedy, not quite drama) made it hard to place in my mind. And I'm a television writer.
We're constantly selling shows in this country that are neither fish nor fowl. We can't dare to put a show on the air that's just a comedy, so we wind up putting out these half-comedies that aren't funny enough, but aren't deep like a good drama. When you step up and sell comedy, you need to sell comedy. You are making a compact with the audience and that compact is this: watch this and you will laugh.
When you put a drama on the air, there are a lot more entry points, and potential compacts with the audience. You can say that you're going to learn something. You can say that you're going to see a story ripped from the headlines, explored in an interesting way. You can say that you'll be intrigued by the mystery, and stay for the romantic tension and witty repartee. Whatever. The West Wing, for much of its run, was one of the funniest shows on television, made even better by the fact that that kind of funny was sort of an unadvertised special. The compact with the audience, the sell, was that you were going to see a smart and passionate show about people grappling with big issues in the corridors of power.
Let me be clear here, again: I think Robson's a good show. The problem is that you get a very small window to sell people on the concept of a show. If the sell is "Little Mosque on the Prairie" that's a nice, easy, simple sell. As was "Corner Gas," (which is why the snarky, "Corner Mosque" jokes, though snarky, are kinda true, too.) Robson Arms, so long as it's a little of this, little of that -- isn't an easy sell. And considering how little it gets sold, that might be a problem.
If Robson is going for more comedy in its second season, I think that's a good thing. I liked the comic episodes last year a lot more than the ones that tried to be serious. In any case, it's certainly a worthy show and on Saturday, it's going to need all the help it can get.
Now for the cranky. David Moses, one of the Robson writers, has been tracking the promotion (or lack thereof) for Robson Arms' return. You could be forgiven if you were in Canada and had not heard anything about this show. It hasn't really been pushed very hard.
If Little Mosque has taught anything, it is this: one of the arguments about Canadian TV is over. Again. You can get an audience, but you do have to actually promote the show. That's such a basic thing, I know, but yet I'm not seeing from those on high any real recognition of this plain and simple truth. All because, for most of them, these shows are not moneymakers. But that doesn't mean that it's right, or that it should be stood for. Amid all the hoopla over what to do with the CTF, can we make a little room for, "why bother if you're not going to tell anyone?"
Or... considering the money they make off those huge American Idol numbers, how come there weren't 10 or 12 high quality, different, sassy Robson promos running once a break for the last three weeks on CTV?
What's the point of having the discussion about how to "fix" Canadian TV if you won't even do the things YOU KNOW WILL HELP?
Robson Arms, Saturday 9pm, CTV (The CSI/L&O/Idol Channel) I hope it gets a hail-Mary number. (Even though that would be disastrous, since it would reward the "benign neglect" promotional strategy.)
Aagggah! See, this is why I'm cranky.
26 comments:
"Or... considering the money they make off those huge American Idol numbers, how come there weren't 10 or 12 high quality, different, sassy Robson promos running once a break for the last three weeks on CTV?
What's the point of having the discussion about how to "fix" Canadian TV if you won't even do the things YOU KNOW WILL HELP?"
I think that is my #1 biggest complaint with the way Canadian networks treat Canadian content. Go to NBC.com and what do you see? You see their programs flaunted across the 'front' page... go to CTV.ca what do you see? NEWS headlines. Yes you can find program information, but it just seems to be a different mindset...
No arguments on the simple act of promoting the shows. You've already won that one.
As to the charge of "neither fish nor fowl"...I find I'm okay with such shows. I like genre hybrids. They've got more vigour in'em than straight-up comedies or dramas anyway. I'm never going to ask the production teams responsible for them to apologize, because they shouldn't.
I must say, most of my favourite shows are "neither fish nor fowl". Slings & Arrows, This Is Wonderland, The Newsroom, Twitch City, even Puppets Who Kill are all weird, serious, and disturbing at various moments. They also make me laugh more than Cheers or Friends ever did.
But yes, I can see your point about this type of show being a harder sell. It doesn't mean that we can't do comedy, though - just that we can't do American-style sitcoms.
I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.
It's like trying to talk about genre in anything; music, books, TV; most of the time it's hard to fit stuff in to tight categories.
Look guys, not to drop the big hammer here -- but you're wrong:
"It's like trying to talk about genre in anything; music, books, TV; most of the time it's hard to fit stuff in to tight categories."
"It doesn't mean that we can't do comedy, though - just that we can't do American-style sitcoms.
I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing."
Okay, first of all. Anything that's hard to fit into a tight category is, by definition, a tougher sell. Tough sells require clever marketing, and probably quite a bit of marketing support so that you reach the right market and get your word out.
As for that "not necessarily being a bad thing."
It is.
it is when it doesn't connect with the audience. Connecting with the audience is the only thing that matters. We don't need an industry that programs toward critics disease (that propensity for critics to like things that are different and out of the norm because they are different and not necessarily because they are good.) we need an industry that programs toward an audience.
if you want to spent a lot of fucking money explaining, placing, and priming the audience for your hybrid, great. Go to town.
But in Canada, no one wants to do that. So if you're not going to commit to selling the hard to sell program, then STOP MAKING THEM.
Start with easier to sell programs, that you can actually market with less of a buy because the concept isn't hard to explain.
Corner. Gas.
Little.Mosque.On.The.Prairie.
I'm sorry. I watched a lot of eps of "This is Wonderland" over its three year run and I'm still not sure what the fuck it was about.
Robson Arms is a great show - but it's a hard sell, and I think that's part of why CTV has buried it on Saturday. I also think it's the show that they developed, and it's good, so the fact that they're abandoning it now after it's made is unforgiveable.
Denis, there was a definite and deliberate shift in tone this season for some very practical reasons. And for the writing staff it wasn't so much a choice as a given. And we're all pretty happy with the decision.
Maybe it's being canadian, but there are some things I think we're comfortable tooting our horns about... and some things we're not. Many of the positive things I read about the first season made me feel a little uncomfortable because occasionally they made the show sound kind of "precious" and for whatever the strengths and weaknesses of the first season I know that was certainly never one of our aims.
But something I do feel comfortable "tooting" about and gives me confidence in the season ahead is our actors.
They're honestly hilarious.
Cassini? Don't let all his Intelligence work fool you... the guy is a W.C. Fields at heart. Alisen Down, so harried and heart-breaking in the first season, has at least two episodes this season that I guarantee will make you, Denis McGrath, laugh out loud. Her first is next week.
(Let me know if it doesn't and I'll be happy point out the places you shoulda laughed... and I still do.)
On the other hand, everbody knows Gabrielle Miller and Fred Ewaniuck from Corner Gas, and expects them to be funny, but Robson Arms isn't Corner Gas and they aren't Lacey and Hank. It's been an education for me to watch these maturing actors play comic scenes with heart-breaking vunerablity.
Now that I've started I'm just listing off all these great scenes in my mind. Scenes with Zak Santiago, Haig Sutherland, Linda Kash, Peter Deluise... okay okay I know I'm just going down the whole cast list... and there are still more coming to mind. I don't know if it's "just slapstick" or not. But I really think there's a lot of funny stuff.
I hope Mr. Doyle will eventually warm to the direction the show has taken, but there's still a lot of drama mixed with the comedy and I won't disown it when it comes along either... and it's acomin', baby!
While I agree with dmc's general thrust, that a hybrid is a hard sell, I'm not sure if agree with dmc's theory about why this happens. I know what dmc is talking about -- broadcasters don't seem to trust that funny is enough, and they want more "drama" in the stories. But I don't think the solution lies in forgetting about character development. I think it's the other way around, actually.
I've written a lot of comedy and I've noticed that the process generally works like this: writers come up with a story that they think is funny, and then when broadcasters ask for more character motivation, they superimpose it on the existing story by sticking in a monologue or something. I do that myself, actually.
Really funny stuff comes from in-depth character work. What makes a character memorable? Their obsessions, their mistaken beliefs (comic fallacy) taken to extremes. This comes from really thinking hard about a character, who they are, all that "actors" stuff.
I had this conversation with a writer from Frasier once. Those episodes had such elegant plots. I asked him the chicken-egg writer's question: did they come up with the plot lines and then build in the characterizations? He told me that they ALWAYS started with character first. ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS.
Networks do give notes asking for motivation and depth. Sometimes this is because they are afraid that they'll look stupid, but sometimes they are justified in doing that. I've read a lot of comedy scripts where a character has a funny line or does something slapstick, which might read well, but if there's absolutely no reason for that character to do that, excpet that obviously the writer thinks it would get a good laugh -- well, it just falls flat when you play it.
Learned this the hard way!
Dave, that's great to hear. I think it's also something that people have to remember that this is the first time the people working on Robson Arms have had a chance to respond to viewer thoughts and the critics... part of the problem of putting everything in the can before you go to air is that you can't adjust on the fly. That's one of the reasons I'm most looking forward to Robson Arms 2.0.
Synge, your comments about character are well taken. I'm not suggesting that you can get away without giving your comic character a character, or any depth.
But it is a much shallower depth than those notes sessions I'm referring to would suggest.
Comic characters CANNOT GROW TOO MUCH, because they cannot become aware of their flaws. If they do, they become dramatic characters. All comic characters eventually become dramatic characters on a show, around when the once-funny show starts to need to end, because you've filled in lots of backstory and yes, changed the character over time. Carla on Cheers at the end was only slightly less cuddly than Woody, because you'd filled in all sorts of backstory about her and she wasn't funny anymore.
The kind of growth and change characters go through in one season of a drama is more than a comic character should really go through in seven seasons.
In a comedy movie, in fact, part of the ending is about solving the problem, and (most of the time) transforming that character into a dramatic character.
But the notes sessions I'm talking about that do not recognize the attenuation needed to keep a character comic. That's what I'm talking about.
dmc, that's a really good thought about not letting comic characters grow. It also reminds me of another fatal flaw in our homegrown drama... the constant need to "fix" characters, whether they are comic or dramatic. There's this need to make main characters learn their lessons, and hence change -- smooth out their edges. But in truth, it's the audience who should learn the lessons. Definitely push the boundaries of your characters, because that is fun, but don't try heal anybody unless you plan to write them out of the show!
I guess I was also referring to how I see the process of comedies being turned into hybrids. Writers and execs think that adding a "dramatic" scene to a comedy will add lacking character dimensions.
And while I'm rambling... you know, the thing about Robson Arms was, that it was originally a BCE Benefits package deal. CTV committed to making a show to foster "new" talent (even though the vast majority of experience talent was out of work) to appease the CRTC. Nobody really expected the show to be good.
Well, surprise surprise, the show did well. Now the bar has been substantially raised. And it's probably worth noting that Season 2 is airing at least a year after it was actually shot. That's kind of a strange dynamic, I think.
Actually synge, it's not quite a year but point taken.
I honestly didn't mind Doyle's comments. He's right. And good for him for recognizing that we made a change. But we planned the change as David has pointed out. It might be construed in Doyle's article that the change was an inadvertent development in season 2, although he never actually says that. But these points are much further away from what this thread has developed into, so I'll just stop now.
Gary
Please don't. Like any writer, I'm more than happy to eavesdrop or hear any of the coffee klatch convos -- I want to hear anything you guys want to say about your Robson Arms' process -- seriously. Go nuts. It's your thread as much as anybody elses!
hey denis
it's interesting the point you made about the difference between comic and dramatic characters. it was one of the very first conversations we had with our broadcast executives when we began work on season two.
i'm not going to pretend that RAII is a sitcom but whether and how much certain characters were allowed to change was a topic of practically every story meeting.
and for those of you who are still wondering, denis is right, it's better for the comedy if they don't. in fact, almost all comedy is based on the premise that the character doesn't change... while it's better for your drama if they do...
and if you start mixing them-- (and, whether one thinks we do it successfully or not, RAII occasionally does... but sloooooooowly, especially for our "core" characters)-- better make sure it's not an accident, lest your comedy become "a very special episode".
I can provide an alternative title for This is Wonderland that sums up the premise: How to Survive Working in Legal Aid in Toronto. Question mark at the end of the title is optional. I'll concede that eventually it got to the point where you could drop "Working in Legal Aid" as part of the title, and it would've fit a Hell of a lot better.
I still enjoyed watching it, and was royally PO'ed when it got the axe. I want it back, dammit!
More on the issue of character change/evolution whatever the genre later, as I gather more coherent thoughts together.
the only character change sam waterson has underwent in all the seasons of one of the most sucessful drama's of all time has been his slow descent into dementia but I don't beleive that was scripted
touché, blueglow.
but one might argue that waterson role wasn't a character but half a dialectic that voted republican and liked the ladies.
joe mannix, steve mcgarret, grissom and all the rest of the CSI'ers, all the cast from without a trace, cannon, dominic davinci, all the rest of the cast of all the other law and orders, rockford etc while these characters may have changed to some degree over the course of time I would argue that they didn't not change to a significant degree.
I would also argue that characters like archie, edith, hawkeye, sam from cheers etc did undergo some change over the course of thier seasons and would say that if you charted the development of the dramatic characters I cited and the comedic characters I cited I think it would be a wash.
i love this, blueglow! the only thing i'll point out-- and this is in no way a judgement because I agree with what you're saying-- is that all the examples you're giving are genre shows.
Blueglow, I have the strong suspicion here that you're merely being deliberately contrarian, and you know exactly what the answer is to your examples, but for the benefit of anybody else who might be wandering in here...
Character development, ANY character development in television, is a more recent phenomenon which was probably driven by the success of the cable shows. A few of the examples you cite -- Mannix, Cannon and McGarret, are from shows just about as old as me from when the point was that nothing changed at all on TV. Others, like L&O, Without A Trace, and the CSI franchise are procedurals where, yes, the plot and the mystery rules not the character development.
In your comedy examples, both Edith Bunker, and Hawkeye Pierce and Sam Malone did develop, but in exactly the way I laid out -- they became less comic, and more dramatic characters. Especially Hawkeye. Did anyone laugh at Hawkeye the last two seasons of MASH? Was Edith as funny after she got raped? I'm thinking no.
I disagree that Davinci never changed, and I think even Rockford changed a bit too by the end (a lot considering the era and what was happening on other shows of the era.) in any case, Rockford remained awesome.
Once serialization crept in as a value, the ground shifted for dramatic characters. But I'm pretty sure you know that and are just taking the piss.
To a certain extent you may be right and I'm just fucking around but, the problem is broadbased generalizations just don't play and hey, if you can use foster brooks as an example of something I got no trouble using steve mcGarret or Ironside.
I would also say that if you want to argue that serialization (or character development) in TV Drama is a recent invention spurred on by cable networks I wonder what the crew at Hill Street, LA Law (and millions of others, shit why not Dallas or Dynasty) et al would say to that.
You know as well as I that there are two types of drama, stand alone and serialized, both have been around since TV began one allows for massive character change, the other would like the characters to remain as iconic figures (the Equalizer).
Okay, but hang on a second here. Did I generalize? Yeah, I did. I was more concerned about making the point of the difference between comedy and drama without putting in all the asterisks.
But rather than point out "of course, you're leaving out this" you chose to use examples from a type of show you know was in a different category as some way to, what, disprove the larger point? Or just muddy the water? C'mon. That's not cricket. Nor is it in the spirit of open honest discussion. You were being a little disingenuous when you chose those examples. And from where I sit, you're doing it again, throwing up Dallas, LA Law, Dallas and Dynasty. You know those shows flowed from the fount of the soap. And that, in fact, it's only a recent development that the word "serial" applied to TV drama didn't immediately read as a synonym for "soap."
Yes, nothing is really new in TV. But the idea that ALL 1hours -- outside of the procedurals -- would increasingly rely on character development is a relatively recent phenomenon-- and the reason why the networks went that way was to compete with the deeper storytelling that cable started to provide.
I'll give you Hill Street, but for the love of mike, give me a break here. If you really fundamentally disagree with the thesis, say it. But don't just chip at this and that because for whatever reason you're annoyed.
I agree that comic characters should and do change less than dramatic characters (or at least dramatic characters in continuing or serialiazed dramas) but I do not agree with the idea that the element of character growth in televised drama is a recent development or that character growth is necessary in a dramatic character.
If that means I'm being disengenuous, well sorry, I don't think I am.
As for LA Law being nothing more than an extension of daytime soaps I would also disagree. I see it to be every bit as ground breaking as shows like Six Feet Under in terms of depth of character, subject matter and the like.
I would also say that Desperate Housewives owes just as much to shows like Dallas as it does to I dunno, Weeds or whatever. Does that make it a serial or a night time soap? To me it is no more than just another hour of campy fun like Melrose Place was chock a block full of campy, oversexed cartoon characters and like Melrose does not owe it's existance to HBO.
I concede the point on L.A. Law. I probably wasn't enough of a fan to speak authoritively on that show's influences.
I think DH muddies the waters of the discussion in a different way because it's a pretty self aware comedy hour. It's dressed up like a soap, to be sure.
Shooting around semantics and philosophy, I would categorize your main objection to what I'm saying is what you wrote in your first paragraph last time:
-Character development in drama is not new
-Character development is not necessary for a dramatic character.
Nothing is new, I think I've said that before, but I think, if anything, there has been an audience shift that we are in the middle of right now that has great implications for Canadian writers and networks.
The shift is that what once was normal in TV: static characters, is now out of fashion in everything but the procedurals, and even the procedurals are feeling the pressure. L&O's ratings drop like a stone, while the only one of the Wolf L&O shows that continues to do gangbusters is the one where there is character development. (And Wolf knows it -- hence his last few failed shows that tried to meld his old formula with new serialization, and the big raises just given to SVU's stars. Isn't Wolf the guy who just fires people and brings in new faces? Not anymore.)
The procedural pendulum has swung.
It's interesting that you check Melrose Place, as that's a perfect example of the soap influence and how things really have changed...on Melrose, characters didn't develop so much as turn on a dime...Michael went evil, the nice Kimberly became a psycho overnight...that kind of character change well established from the world of the soap.
I guess we just have to agree to disagree on elements of this issue, because I think it would be extraordinary indeed to see any regular network television show contemporary with Hill Street Blues or earlier that had anything near the character development that's regular on today's hour dramas. Even on HIll Street, it's not like the central relationship between Furillo and Davenport did much over the run of the show.
Where this audience taste for greater development handicaps us in Canada is our broadcast execs are even more averse to having development or serialized elements, because they want to be able to bounce, and show out of order, all to chase the almighty U.S. simulcast.
I had heard, maybe i'm wrong, that seventy percent of this year's drama in development was in projects that were largely "one of" in nature; ie not serialized. So maybe the pendulum is swinging, maybe not, but people seemed to be surprised that "everyone has abandonned the serial"...
Honestly, I don't know...
and I don't know what the right way to go is. Do you go unique ---critic friendly like robson arms or do you go -- straight ahead genre "we know what it is! we don't have to define it before we sell it!? what is going to make canadian viewers (or any viewers) connect? I don't know but sometimes I put my money on "freak electromagnetic storm".
I just go out there and pitch my shit and I'll leave the tea leaf reading to I dunno, you...
all I know is that bald pronoucements are the kind of things I have to deal with with networks, producers alla time...
and I don't buy them.
best
Hi Denis. I read your site frequently and thoroughly enjoy it. Now I can't resist a weigh-in. As one of the two creators/showrunners of "Robson Arms" (along with Gary), I just wanted to clarify that the tone in Season 1 was completely intentional, and entirely of my making, so I take full responsibility. It wasn't about the network giving us "drama notes." In fact our network exec was/is excellent and supportive (rare, you say? Indeed!). It was always my/our goal to make a show that could make you laugh and make you cry all in 22 minutes, which could be made a bit more do-able since we were only following one story per episode. Sometimes we hit the mark really well, I feel, other times we probably veered into "a very special Robson Arms," for a scene or two but all in all I felt the tonal balance worked quite well. The shift in season 2, as Dave points out, was deliberate, and yet we still try to give everyone humanity and depth, and still have quite a few episodes that go more for the emotional jugular.
I hear ya re: it being a tough sell. Our show got made in the first place because of the BCE benefits thing and maybe that's why we were allowed to do something a little different. I like to think that sometimes "different" can catch on too, but you're right -- it won't if it doesn't get a lot of support and proper marketing etc.
I hope the show doesn't make you so cranky this time around.
Rats. You know, I feel bad sometimes cause, you know, language bein the root of all misunderstanding and stuff.
I of course have no truck that "drama notes" for "comedy shows" was responsible for Robson Arms in the first season -- And the truth is, every episode I saw I quite enjoyed. It just didn't always seem to be the same show. I don't always go with the causailty on the stream of consciousness -- more the way it makes me feel.
I think that switching tone thing is just so hard to do in 22 mins that it's a high wire act even to try. West Wing only managed the great balance sometimes, and they had twice as long.
In any case I really feel more strongly than, rather than content, I always felt that Robson didn't get the push it needed and part of that was the fact that it was harder to sell.
Whatever. Be that as it may, I absolutely commend all of you for that classy premiere and I'm sure I'm gonna love the rest, based on what I've heard and seen.
I do appreciate you taking the time to come here and set me straight -- or at least allow any potential calumnies not to go unanswered!
The most cranky I get is at the thought of people doing quality work that doesn't get seen or appreciated because nobody knows it's on.
I hope I'm not linking to an article in the NYTimes a year from now talking about "Robson Arms, yet another great show from Canada that's now on DVD and we quite like but few people got to see when it was on..."
The other thing that occurred to me watching the show last night: if they were smart CTV could start carving out something like Robson as a "CTV distinct" kind of series. I just for the life of me cannot imagine ever treating the guy in the wheelchair as you did on a CBC show. It would never get past the gate.
Anyway, thanks for dropping by, and thanks for entertaining me marvellous much on a Sat night in in Vancouver.
DMc
Denis, I was not remotely offended by any of your comments! I like that you express your point of view on Canadian shows without resorting to plain old nastiness, which is epidemic in our biz.
Yes, Robson Arms needs to be promoted better. I agree with Theresa -- why not a bunch of slick promos during American Idol? I truly believe there are a lot of committed, passionate people working on behalf of Canadian TV at our networks -- but at the very top, we are mere warts on their asses, itchy and annoying and sometimes they can ignore us and sometimes they need to rub on a little ointment.
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