I was talking to a showrunner-level writer the other day who came up the old school way. This writer started out in the mid-nineties, back when writers were trained old skool: Get a job on a show staffed and run by professional writers and learn the craft of writing and the art of showrunning. Get a lot of experience, become a showrunner.
Now, any yob with a "great idea" gets a development deal, even if they have no writing experience. When the broadcast executives/non-writing producers realize the mistake they've made (and the fact their show has no engine), an experienced writer is hired to "help" the noob. Trouble is, the writer is not given the authority to follow through on the creative fixes they're proposing.
Said noob ignores suggestions and notes from the experienced writer, clings to old ideas, and yet another sucky show is produced, runs for two years and dies a merciful death.
Without knowing it, Julia has just completely described not just the current state of where the U.S. TV industry is going, but also the state of where the Canadian industry has been. (There's also the complicating factor of non-writing producers with POD deals but that's a topic for another post.)
That's why I titled the post she commented on, "And Maybe We'll Meet in the Middle."
I've tried to build my career by working for other people, and learning as much as I can from them. I did co-create a show -- at a point where I wouldn't have wanted to be the person calling the final shots anyway. I've tried to pick up what I can, and build a full skillset both in writing and producing -- the latter stretching back even before I was writing, to years of in-network producing experience with documentary and smaller projects.
It's actually really hard to build your career that way in Canada. But I've not regretted it. Some of my experiences have taught me the good way, some the bad (ie: "whoa, gotta remember NOT to do THAT!") but the net result is I'm comfortable now in a lot of arenas that were an utter mystery to me six or seven years ago. When I get a solo show on the air, not only am I going to be able to build a great writing staff, but I'm gonna be able to draw and the past and future advice of my peers.
That's called doing it old school, friends.
And in a business where nothing's a sure thing, it's the only way to increase the odds. I can't believe that Hollywood is actually moving away from it. I look at the future, and I see lots more Bionic Womans. Brrrr.
Thanks Julia. I owe you a vodka something.
15 comments:
G, if you want to know why I deleted your comment, please contact me via email.
That's exactly the way I got to do it. No CFC. Into a story department as a script typist ( I lied about my ability in that area) just as computers etc were coming it -- so it was lots of "white out" and cutting and pasting -- with fucking scissors.
From there -- three years as a story editor and five more as an executive story editor and about 40-50 scripts later the FIRST producer credit. In all of those jobs, except the last couple years as ESE, I was working with people who had more experience and were generous with their time and expertise.
so by the time i was "showrunning" as it is now commonly called I had at least five or six scripts in a variety of genres in both one hour and half hour formats as well as tons of experience interacting with actors, other writers (there was a freelance culture back then where you could work with all kinds of fantastic guest writers who might not be able to "play well with others" in a story room) directors, producers and network people.
Also because of the nature of the story editing position i had rewritten somewhere near 100 scripts ( a lot of these gigs were 26 episode series) -- some of the rewrites were "page oners" some were simple rewrites done to address production changes.
The point being by the time I got the "big job" I had been immersed in the TV culture and the reality of grinding out series for eight or nine years. I do shake my head at the fact that people are now routinely being handed a job that many of us trained years and years to do.
this is not to say that they aren't good writers and couldn't become great showrunners, but in this country (and I expect it is true in all others) there is a lot more to running a show than getting scripts onto the floor.
No matter how fantastic your crew and cast are over the course of a series you discover that, in their eyes, each script is a new homework assignment and from time time time every department and producer is going to hit you with a variant of (do we haveta? do this). How you balance this stuff is what keeps the show on the rails.
Cast members have to be satisfied -- I've run into my share of "line counters" and ego's and expectations have to be managed, often on a daily basis.
networks have to be given their input and that input has to be integrated into a script or series in such a way that the script or series can still be what you want it to be. and when their are multiple networks involved this can be an adventure in horsetrading -- CBS wants this but CBC wants that so if I give CBC "that" on this script I'm gonna have to find something for CBS on the next one.
Your mind is usually primarily on three scripts at the same time -- the one in prep, the one being shot, and the one in the cutting room -- while being aware that these three are only a chunk of the whole series.
And like it or not, this being Canada, you have to be aware of financial issues and repercussions for anything you are planning to do. "Most" producers/line producers I have worked with want to see all the money on the screen, some do not, so you have to keep on top of it.
All said, and sorry I did go on, I could not imagine doing the job well without having a handle on the writing part of the job and the "handle" has to be more than being able to write a good script. You have to KNOW that you can get sixty pages onto the floor in two days if you have to. Because with the reality of short prep time etc you're going to be writing all your scripts as the showrunner on your weekends that is if you're not having drinks with the "tricky" actor or director.
I'm a fairly cocky individual when it comes to this stuff and at times the job can freak me out. I don't know how someone without at least five years experience on the set and in the writing room and in the editing suite can do it.
This all has a 'kids these days have it so easy - back in my day...' feel to it. Now If only some old school-trained writer could just recount their daily trudge to the production office (incline and snow levels).
I mean, I completely agree that a showrunner has to have a ton of experience, but I don't think I know of many (any?) Canadian shows that have an inexperienced showrunner. I do, however, know a lot of aspiring TV writers who would torch their Macbooks for the development deal that 'any yob' apparently so easily gets these days. But if broadcast execs are indeed willing to throw cash at anyone with a "great idea", then it must mean that they're starved for great ideas no? It's not like they prefer a lack of writing experience.
PG,
due respeck. You have no fucking idea what you're talking about.
Which part?
I am completely open to enlightenment.
Great.
1) Go read "Billion Dollar Kiss" by Stepakoff.
2) Peruse the articles on this site on showrunning, prep, giving notes, the second episode problem -- pretty much the whole TV craft category.
It's all here to enlighten you. But I just don't feel like repeating myself. Not today.
1) I will read this book. Thanks for the recommendation.
2) I didn't really comment on showrunning - just that you need a ton of experience to do it. I just wanted to point out that there are a lot of dedicated wannabe writers who can't in fact get a development deal (I guess the 'any yob' struck a chord).
But this is a post about the showrunner, rather than about the writer who gets a development deal, so my bad. I digress.
The any yob can get a development deal, while not completely accurate, is not as far fetched as one would believe. Network execs -- especially the junior ones who end up taking these meetings and assigning development deals get real ansty when they talk to someone who has more experience than they do.
The minute you tell them --no I'm not doing that -- they take it as a personal offense and get all huffy huffy so they'd rather deal with some new person who would gnaw off their own arm for a fifteen G grand script contract and then they can capriously give notes that the new writer will do over and over again until the script and the idea gets so terminally boring that it never has to be produced.
The other thing that happens is that because their jobs are, in essence, kinda useless -- my wife ended up quitting hers when she realized that every single person she respected hated her and her kind -- they take great pride out of the only thing they can actually believe they can take credit for which is "making someone's career" -- ie, giving the newbie his or her first break. You can't get that feeling if you're dealing with someone who has already got a career -- so don't kid yourself that these new fresh faces are coming in with great ideas that more experienced writers don't have.
And if you want to assume that my post is a "kids today have it so easy" feel to it, go ahead but I will tell you that my ability to do my job was a result of working under people for a number of years and being able to develop my writing and re-writing skills without having to worry about the details of running a show from day to day, week to week, month to month and I think that many of the people who have since worked under me and are now running shows have had a better more successful time of it because they had a few years working and learning from someone more experienced in not just the craft, but the politics, of making TV.
One of the causes as I see it is inexperienced network execs who will think a great idea = showrunning capabilities. I know that some here may scoff at my title but, being from a director showrunner position (Note * I would'nt do a show as such without a writer showrunner attached at the hip and we'd share the position) I am constantly pitched ideas from young writers who think that by attaching me they'd somehow get a leg up and get their show done. Even when they pitch something that seems great or potentially great, one of the first things I say to them is if they want to get it made they first need to accept the fact that a bona fide showrunner (writer) NEEDS to be attached. If they can't accept that then I am usually finished the conversation and I thank them for my beer.
Frank - Was just messin' with the 'kids these days' bit... too glib I guess.
But thanks for your response - it makes sense and I can see how it happens. Unfortunately.
Hey PG.
Talk to any mid-level professional writer. If they're not currently "helping" a noob, I promise you, they've been interviewed to do it.
Almost every one I know is in the midst of that particular exercise in frustration. That's usually the first order of business we discuss when drinks night starts.
(BTW, actors with no writing experience and an idea really get producers and broadcasters hard.)
It's not the fault of the person with the idea. The blame lies with the decision makers who have little to no regard for the skill it takes to create, write and sustain series television.
I'm not going to single out people here (and start a slanging match) but if you familiarize yourself with the schedules/development slates of Canadian broadcasters, you'll see what I'm talking about.
Go to the WGC party in the spring and talk to a couple of working writers. You'll hear a lot about how writing is devalued and disrespected.
PS Frank Dillon's assessment of the exec attitude toward people with experience is bang on.
Hi Julia,
I think your point of view is a little cynical - what you might call 'helping a noob' is what others might call 'mentorship'. And some mid/top level writers actually go out of their way become mentors. IMO, experts willing to help people starting out is one of the more attractive parts of the Canadian TV industry.
As for broadcast execs, I see and understand Frank's point, and I personally can't stand when actors assume that writing is easy. But I know that broadcasters love to have experienced 'name' showrunners and writers on their development and production slates as well. Sure, they might have a few inexperienced or 'not quite ready' people (mainly in development), but I don't find that too surprising seeing as there's a constant general impression that this industry, as it is, is broken. And if this is case, why not take a chance on something/someone new? And then they also have a few examples (Corner Gas/Trailer Park Boys/ Little Mosque/ Degrassi/ etc) of how this chance might work out.
And as for writers being undervalued/ disrespected... well I think you could go to the DGC/ACTRA/NABET/ IATSE/ any union or guild party and find people who feel like they don't get the credit they deserve. While you're at it, you could probably go to any broadcaster or funder party and find the same attitude. And while I think that writers probably have more reason than most to have those feelings, I also think it's inevitable. Actors, directors, and even producers are just simply going to get more face time and credit.
I think your point of view is a little cynical - what you might call 'helping a noob' is what others might call 'mentorship'.
No, PG. Not others who have been there. I've been mentored. I've mentored others. And you're 100 percent off base here. It is not the same thing.
You're welcome to go find people who've actually been in the position and who agree with you if you want to back up your contentions. But until you do that, you're playing a semantic game with no conception of the reality of the situation.
I have given of my time quite freely to speak for free to students and people trying to enter the industry. I have taught for a decade. Without realizing it, you're actually damaging the case for being a mentor in the TV industry, not bolstering your point of view. Because if someone can point to the systemic abuse perpetrated by this dysfunctional state of affairs and say, "well, it's just mentorship..." then clearly all help -- including real mentorship -- should be withheld so it doesn't further confuse the issue.
And then they also have a few examples (Corner Gas/Trailer Park Boys/ Little Mosque/ Degrassi/ etc) of how this chance might work out.
Respectfully, PG, it's clear that you don't really have a grasp of how any of the shows you name came together. Because each of them have variable and elements well known to anyone who's been here longer than ten minutes, that makes parsing the sentence you wrote there utterly nonsensical.
It's like saying, "first time authors can be great, too. Look at Jane Austen and John Grisham and the guy who wrote The Secret and the publisher of the Fodor's guide to Wales and Dr. Seuss and the Zagat Tokyo Diner's guide."
Seriously, you can hold whatever cockamamie opinion you want. But when I was coming up, if I went to someone who had worked in a field for years and years and spoke from a position of experience, my opener wouldn't be how wrong they were. And if it were, I'd back it up.
Do that, please. Or just stop.
Hey PG.
Chime in again when you have writing and story editing credits on 10 different shows. Let's see what you have to say then, noob.
I'm done.
Hey, I'm not trying to be disrespectful - I'm just discussing. And as I said previously, I am genuinely open to new views and opinions.
But the overing point of view here (this post/thread, rather than the blog) seems to be, 'if you don't have years of experience, then you either don't have an opinion, or your opinion doesn't matter'. And please don't say 'you just don't get it', because there's no other way to interpret:
Chime in again when you have writing and story editing credits on 10 different shows. Let's see what you have to say then, noob.
(just as an example).
So because there's only so much I can learn from being condescendingly told 'you don't know', I'm out too.
PS - Denis, the only point I had with the shows I mentioned is that they were created by people who didn't have considerable TV series experience. That was it.
Okay, now I'm really out.
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